In this podcast episode, EWG President and co-Founder Ken Cook talks with entrepreneur and EWG board member Shazi Vizram. She’s the creator of the groundbreaking baby food company Happy Baby and has launched her newest venture, HealthyBaby.
Her line of baby personal care products are all EWG Verified®, signaling that they are free from EWG’s chemicals of concern and meet EWG’s strictest health standards. That’s important for babies – the most vulnerable population when it comes to chemical exposure. Yet many other baby products sold in the U.S. contain endocrine-disrupting chemicals.
Vizram discusses why the subject of babies’ neurological health is crucial to her, and shares her journey, what inspires her, and the importance of being EWG Verified.
Disclaimer: This transcript was compiled using software and may include typographical errors.
Ken: Welcome to Ken Cook is having another episode. This episode is triggered by joy, resolve, invention, creativity. Today, we're talking to my dear friend, hero, entrepreneur, inventor, And one of the most extraordinary business people and moms and environmentalists I know she's on the EWG board and has been for quite a few years.
I first met Shazi Vizram when she was still running Happy Family, which is the company that revolutionized baby food, organic baby food. Before she came along, it was a rounding error in some companies off to the side. She turned it into a company that organic baby food to the mass market and there's no more important time to have food that's perfectly healthy, free of pesticides, free of other toxic chemicals than those early years.
And so she did. Then, in addition to that, she started Healthy Baby, which is now another revolutionary company. that is making a wide range of products, all of which are EWG verified. I happen to like the deodorant, personally, even though I don't have baby skin. Shazi is deeply concerned, specifically with neurological insults.
The risks that are posed by what babies are exposed to, what they ingest in their food, what they breathe in the air. What they come in contact with and on their little bums and you have just changed the world as far as i'm concerned one of these rare people who Made such a difference and done it in a way that that scaled, you know actual products that people can buy that are of the highest standard and That are aimed at reducing Toxic harm.
Well, welcome to a great episode because that's how I feel about you
Shazi: Well, first of all, I, I love you too and I, I just like hearing you talk about me. , , you're the best wingman ever. Thank you, Ken. I think we all in our world are care about certain things. I personally have seen as a mom how important the early years are, and I think it's just the most precious time of our life and we need to.
Not only protect our baby's biology, but create resilience by having a really wonderful, beautiful, warm, loving environment so they have a chance, you know, and, uh, I'm honored to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh,
Ken: My pleasure. So say a little bit about, I love the origin story.
Shazi: I mean, don't we all want to do what we can to change the world?
Ken: No. Not everyone does. But you do.
Shazi: Don't we all seek something that you could get up for every single day and just crush it because you really, really want to?
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: So for me, it was like I needed to find something that I could put all of my energy into to make a difference. And I, um, I somehow extrapolated that organic baby food would change the world.
Ken: So you don't remember how you, why wasn't an organic something else?
Shazi: Well, I had a conversation with a friend. She had twins. I look up to her in every single way. And she was telling me that she was a bad mom because she didn't make her baby's food fresh from organic produce at the farmer's market.
What on God's green earth are you talking about? I mean, I think it's still green. And. She said, well, I, you know, I wanted to, but now I'm using this like ultra processed food and it doesn't even look like food. And I thought, well, what if there was something better? Would you buy it? She said, yeah, in a heartbeat, you know.
And then I looked into it more and more because I kept thinking, well, if our body has the ability to heal itself naturally, if food's medicine, and if that's the case, and I was in, you know, that yoga phase of my life and really like thinking about my health, you know, I was in my twenties, so I could take a risk, I could take a big swing.
I mean, I had nothing to lose. I grew up in a motel in Alabama, so it's not like I didn't have anything to lose, quite literally. And so, I mean, maybe some peanut butter and the chopstick I ate it with, you know? And so I just realized that, wow, if we could start our babies off with the cleanest food possible from the very first bite.
Maybe there's a chance that they could heal themselves.
Ken: You decided, okay, I'm going to build an entire company. I'm going to source the organic food, which just for starters is not easy. Then I'm going to come up with packaging and branding and all of that and you're, you're in your twenties and you don't have a kid yet.
Shazi: No, I'm not even a mom at that time. And then, and I don't know anything about food production.
Ken: Well natural fit then.
Shazi: Yeah. And microbiology and all the things that one needs to know. But I did know that you can surround yourself with people who are way smarter than you in every single facet, but you can't sort of reproduce passion.
I really believed in the mission and when I looked around, I thought, Wait a second, nobody's doing this in a compelling way to make people realize that, uh, they should start their babies off on organic food. I mean, it just seems so basic now, you know. It does. But, um, at that point it wasn't. And then I knew I could make something better.
I knew I could.
Ken: So when did you know that it was really going to work? That not only could you make the products, but that it was It was going to scale, it was going to come into the marketplace and it, I mean it blew up right? Pretty much right away?
Shazi: No. No? I mean, it sounds like it did. Well, so that conversation happened in 2003 with my friend.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: I started a business plan in 2004. We didn't launch until 2006. We started with frozen organic baby food, it was the closest thing to homemade that you could get. You know, that was 2006, I don't think we really did much until 2010 and then we found a new format that really resonated. with parents and babies, because what I learned is that if you make something easier, that is better and healthier, then a parent will adopt it.
But it's really difficult to change their behavior, but if you make it easier for them.
Ken: Sure.
Shazi: And every baby, you know, deserves the best, and every parent wants the absolute best for their baby. But they want it to be convenient. Yeah, I mean, we grew like, like a rocket and it was hard to keep up with, honestly.
Ken: Yeah, no, I, I, I remember you struggling with, you know, finding ingredients that you felt were, had integrity and obviously produced organically. When was it that you sort of realized that you had a tiger by the tail, and that this was, it was going into mainstream grocery stores, thousands of stores, and when did that really hit?
Shazi: It's funny, like, my dad saw me on the Super Bowl pregame in an Amex commercial, you know, holding my baby up. For him to see me as an immigrant in Alabama, seeing their daughter on TV. It makes you feel like something's happening, right?
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: They would only watch Fox News, otherwise, I mean, being honest, you know, and uh, it's Alabama.
I don't know, when you're an entrepreneur and you're, you're trying to make something, it's never enough. And then when it gets to be something worth protecting, you're worried about losing it and then you're thinking bigger again about what do we do to make this solid and last forever? I want it to be iconic.
I want it to be meaningful. Yeah,
Ken: of course.
Shazi: And a platform for change. It wasn't just about baby food. It was about this whole new enlightened way of living.
Ken: Yeah, of course. I don't remember exactly when we first met, but it was way back in the mid teens, do you think? Is that right?
Shazi: I think we first met in 2011.
Ken: Yeah. Okay. But in
Shazi: 2000, starting in 2007, I used to hand out these little wallet cards of the clean 15 and the dirty dozen. The EWG. So I've always been a fan of yours. Yeah. I mean, you're my, my hero in the legend. So, and it was a card that we would print out and share with people so that if you were struggling with affording organic, Hey, these are clean ones and here's the ones that you really do need to focus on buying organic for your family.
And that was my introduction to your work and the work of EWG.
Ken: So what were the hardest ingredients to source for your baby food?
Shazi: That's funny. I mean, Once you get to a place where you need a lot, the apples have to be sweet enough, the carrots need to be sweet enough. I mean, I'm a freak too. So it was, you know, there was a moment where I realized chia is nature's superfood and I love chia and it's, you know, it's a complete protein with all the, and it just had so many awesome benefits.
And it wasn't just chia. I needed salba chia. It was a certain kind of chia that was more consistently, nutritionally, Available, you know, and I think being founder and a freak like that, it's probably hard for ops to deal with, but it sets a bar, you know?
Ken: Yeah. And back then, I mean, that pulled a lot of organic farmers into a better place where they had a market and they could, you know, take the chance for the three years that it takes to transition to organic.
During those three years, you're only selling. To the conventional market, even though you've given up pesticides and all the rest, you're following the organic rules, but you don't get organic. Prices for your crop. When you come along and make a big difference like that, and we have plenty of friends in the organic world who've done something big like that, uh, Gary Hirshberg's a great example at Stonyfield.
Shazi: love him.
Ken: It, it drives, right? It drives, it drives change.
Shazi: It's the way you create systemic change and it's funny because I'm, I'm like a kid who didn't know anything about the way the world worked except for I, you figure out this formula that if you want, for me, if you want to make change in this world.
Make sure the babies are healthy. When they're born. And that's, that's the way for the next generation. Now I realize too, we have to focus on moms and maternal health.
Ken: Yes, that's right.
Shazi: And, uh, you know, the dads are there too. It's just this whole holistic way of realizing that if we want to get healthy and strong and be able to quite literally heal ourselves, keep our bodies safe, strong.
Ken: Of course.
Shazi: That's the place. That's the time. It's just so monumental of a time.
Ken: Yeah. If you miss that window, you've, you've missed an opportunity for. Maybe lifelong health or the opposite and our first report at EWG was pesticides and baby food, right? In 1993.
Shazi: Ten years before I had this brilliant idea, you had it already.
Ken: Well, there
Shazi: were a lot of people who had it
Ken: and we published that report and, um, I remember it was our first press conference. As environmental working group and Marion Burroughs from the New York time, uh, raised her hand first question and she said, what is this environmental working group? So I immediately thought, well, I probably need to back up here a little bit and explain to the world what we're doing.
But what we were at that time doing is we were trying to make the case. that kids eating regular food with the regular amounts of pesticide in it would get a big part of their full lifetime dose, for example, of carcinogens by the time they were age five, because the fruits and vegetables that were grown conventionally had carcinogens in them, neurotoxins in them, and so forth, that we weren't regulating pesticides.
For little kids, for the most vulnerable, the ones growing the most quickly. Uh, and we talked to Phil Landrigan about this on the podcast a while back. We were regulating it for, you know, 170 pound white men. How much pesticide can they take before we worry about it? And that was a lot more than you could give to a little kid.
Shazi: Well, and I mean, you are what you eat. And when you are a baby, you literally become what you eat. Yeah,
Ken: Quickly.
Shazi: Very quickly. And your brain is developing during that time, which was like sort of my second lesson in life.
Ken: Yeah. Let's talk about your deep connection and abiding concern with Healthy brains with kids that can thrive, um, have their best chance to thrive because they're not exposed to toxic chemicals.
And you have a, obviously it's, it's personal as we've talked about many times.
Shazi: It's personal. Yes. But it's becoming the way the world works. And I think we as a society have to accept that we're going to have neurological differences in our population. And become more kind, loving, and so many positive things can come from it.
You know, I have a son who has very severe autism. It's not a little, and um, it's considered a neurological disorder. And as a parent, when you get this diagnosis and you don't know, um, and it's now one in thirty six babies born in the U. S. Yeah. And Zane, my son, was two. And I mean, you'd think, well, why on God's green earth would you ever sell Happy Baby?
It's the coolest business ever. It's a beautiful brand. You're making a difference. You were like at the White House. You're having dinner with Obama. I mean, it's cool. It was really like a special time. But in the background, my baby was born, and my baby, my baby, has a diagnosis, and at the time, and there still is no consensus, you know, on what causes autism, but if you look at our world, you don't go from one in 10, 000 or one in 2, 000 to one in 36 without considering our environment.
Ken: Yeah, it's not, we're not evolving.
Shazi: No, and then, you know, and then I kind of know a few things because I've been around the block in terms of understanding organic and pesticides and the chemicals used to make them and what they can do to a developing brain and body. And here I am, the mom of, you know, a baby who runs an organic baby food company.
And I just absolutely, you know, I freaked out. I just felt like the world was, you know, It's completely, you know, disorganized and what am I going to, how am I going to help him? It's been a long, hard road. That was 12 years ago. And Zane is now 14 and he started talking when he was eight and we've had a real journey and I think it will be an everlasting journey.
And then I look around and I have done a ton of research and I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientific expert. I'm just a mom that's very well informed. There are so many potential things that we could do better for maternal and infant health to improve our neurological outcomes. And now I just, I know so many of them and I didn't want to start Healthy Baby necessarily. It's not like, I'm not here to sell diapers, but I'm here to talk about how we can improve the time our baby is in diapers. It happens to be the first three years of life when their brain's developing. And I also saw a better way to make them.
Ken: So you sell your first amazing company. And then instead of just being on the beach kicking back, you decide, well, now I'm going to do it all over again.
And we worked closely together because you're whole. Product line is EWG verified, which is, um, I think the technical term is pain in the ass to do
Shazi: a pain in the ass, very expensive. What are some of the other underappreciated, underacknowledged, people actually think you're scamming them by putting a new icon on a package because there's so many, you know, icons today.
But the thing about EWG is like, once you know, you can't unknow. Once you've seen some of the things and read some of the reports, you can't unread them. And frankly, if you know there's a better way. to make something. Why would you not go the distance if you're going to start something new? If you're starting from scratch, you're not inheriting old decisions made by others before you.
You can start from the very best.
Ken: But you have to be driven by that vision. There are plenty of other products for babies that aren't made that way. But you, you took that commitment to great lengths to make sure that you were doing it right and that neurotoxins in particular were We're central to what you wanted to create.
Not a lot of companies, I can't think of any companies that do it that way.
Shazi: Well, I mean, always be improving is my thing. And like, frankly, you know, we, we as a society, we need diapers. They need to work. Parents need to be able to work. Yeah. Diapers are not an eco friendly product.
Ken: Yeah. It's the
Shazi: number three item in landfills.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: Number three, and if someone doesn't take on how do you make a diaper that works, but then doesn't contribute to harming the earth, that has to happen for us to have a brighter future.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: So for me, like once you decide, Oh, well that's a given, then, then you have to make it.
Ken: If you were. In charge of a, of a business school.
How would you go about awakening that impulse? What do we need to generate a whole, a flood of business people that do the right thing?
Shazi: Well, I mean, um, my personal experience moved me to use the tools I had in my toolbox to, to make a difference in my way. And I feel like, you know, again, If I can get diapers in the hands of parents who are just having a baby, think of all the different things we can help them navigate to create an environment that's enriching.
Not just protect their babies, but like actually create an environment that will help them be resilient for our future. That's become very personal to me because I've lived the journey. I've seen how developmentally things that take, that are easy for my daughter, you know, it takes my son like three years to learn how to blow out a candle.
It really did. Three years of therapy. Because it's personal to you and then you want to share it with other people because I've now had a daughter and I applied a lot of that knowledge to having her and I feel like. You know, became far more enlightened as a result. And so, you know, answer your question the long way, which I usually do is, uh, I think when public health becomes personal or when the matters that we care about, our environment, our world, clean food, getting plastics away from us, because you know, we're, you know, we're eating a plastic bag of plastic every single month unintentionally.
Then you, you've got to like do something about it. And the thing is, the reason why there's potential for the movement, the movement's happening is because it, it has to happen economically. It's also like what parents want. It's what consumers want. Nobody wants to slather chemicals all over their baby.
Nobody would choose that. And then again, once you know, you can't unknow. And once the EWG has shed light on information that really quite literally makes you realize, wait, I have to change the way I behave. and buy things, then you buy something better and the brand has to be there that makes the better thing, right?
So I think it all works together.
Ken: So are you experiencing in the world of business with your colleagues that this is happening at a encouraging scale? Are more and more people trying to do this? Is it about the same? Is it? Yeah, it's happening, right?
Shazi: I don't think anybody's going to start a business today to make a product I mean, look, there are going to be some that started businesses as a gimmick to do like a one hit wonder.
Yeah. I don't know, like, let's make the Snuggie. But I think Really, if you're going to make something, you go at it with, how do I make this the very best? And I do really think that Gen Z and the Alpha Gen expect it. And they expect us to be the company in my head that I want us to be. And that might not be, that doesn't match old corporate America.
It's a very different place. And I think young people who are starting businesses want to make the world a better place. I think it's part of their ethos. That's the, actually the, one of the beauties of social media is people do celebrate helping each other and making a difference and doing better things.
I don't know. I'm, I'm an optimist, but I know that new technology and solutions are around every single corner once you start looking for them.
Ken: Yeah. I don't think it's an accident this ethos is catching on as women are founding and running companies in greater numbers. What, what do you think about that?
Shazi: I think we might be underselling the men of the next generation, honestly. Okay. I think the men of an older generation. They're different than the men I know, the young men I know today. Yeah, I think that's true. You know, I know a lot of really super engaged dads that are right there talking about which diapers to choose.
I get emails from dads about like, well, why did you choose this substrate for blah, blah, blah? And I'm like, there is an answer and I will tell you, but I'm amazed that it's a dad asking the question. So women running companies, I mean, traditionally women VC standpoint are super underfunded. I think it's only 3%.
Of VC capital goes to women led ventures, yet the return is typically, I believe it's like five times higher on average. So, you know, it makes sense to invest in women and I am, as I'm an investor and I invest in women. Probably a lot more, but not because they're women, but because I like what they're doing.
Ken: Yeah, that's where the intersection is, the ideas and the drive and the passion.
Shazi: I do think there's a creativity there that comes from the human experience.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: That hasn't been seen in the marketplace and in products. You know, somebody who is like 60 years old and a man who inherited a tampon factory.
That was designed, I mean, someone designed the line to make tampons look the way they did whenever they created the business to make a lot of money on this new marketplace. You know, that guy doesn't know how to change the design. Wait until you're a woman and you get to use these things and you realize, Hey, wait, I can make something better.
That actually works for me and my body because I understand it. You know, I think that's why you're seeing women step into a creator role. I feel like my whole business is based on. My two children and the experience I've had with them
Ken: and you know, 80 percent of the EWG audience, which is, you know, it's a large footprint online is women.
It's always been the case that we've connected with women in much greater numbers than men in, uh, certainly in my organization, lots of women who are leading it, uh, within EWG, but just in the environmental movement. And generally we, we are led more often than not by women.
Shazi: Well, I mean, I, I'm personally biased, but I think that women make for great leaders.
And if you have this innate power to create, there's something very unique about that. And you know, it's, it's our time and it's been our time and now, and it will be our time from now on. And I hope it gets to 50 50. I hope it gets to a little overcorrection, the pendulum swings back to 50 50, which is what it should be.
Ken: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I want my team to come around. Yeah. It might take a little while. We might
Shazi: need to create an effort to hire more men, in positions of power. Yeah. And that will be a fun conversation when we're having it.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: But like, if you're on a mission because you feel strongly about something, you know, You just don't stop.
I just, I won't stop. I mean, you're talking about going to the beach. I, I could not.
Ken: Oh, I can't imagine.
Shazi: I, I, it's not that I don't want to go to the beach and I love going to the beach, but after three or four days, I'm like, I can't be at the beach anymore. I've got to, I've got to do something with this life.
Ken: I've been going to start another company.
Shazi: Maybe I do have this idea, but I, well, my experience in life is, is constantly inspiring Let's just say, but Yeah, I just want to make things. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm creative and I think women are creative.
Ken: It's not easy to make stuff and sell it, right? And with all of the expectations, all the market forces, all the other, and to be able to, you know, as you have done first with baby food, now with a whole range of products for, for babies and, and moms, And dads, it's just pretty extraordinary.
That's it's risk taking. When people used to ask me, what do you feed your kid? Or what do you put on your body? I increasingly thought, well, I would like to know what EWG thinks. And we weren't thinking about it until, you know, we really focused on the, uh, the marketplace and thought, you know, maybe there's another way to drive change than we used to think of as environmentalists, which was.
Get information out there. Take it to Capitol Hill. Pass a law. Get regulations out the door. That's how you do it. Now, you know, if a young person comes to me and says, Hey, I want to work on environmental stuff. I'm just finishing school. What should I do? You know, I'm like, have you thought about an MBA?
Have you thought about going to the private sector? Because it can go faster and deeper if you do that and have an impact exist into the future.
Shazi: I think what you're saying, which it just all gels, is that, um, the movement is happening because consumers are speaking up with the choices they're making and the demand is there.
Versa then. It is really hard to make products to satisfy such a discerning, you know, the new mom and dad. Like, I just never want to let the new mom and dad down. I take it personally, if something, from a performance standpoint, I want it to be the best. And I know, I know we're, we're not perfect, nobody's perfect.
And we are a brand that really cares about changing the world by changing diapers. And I know that everybody's going to have a blowout at one point or another, and not every diaper is perfect at every moment. So it is hard because you can't, you go out there saying, I want to change the way parents are interacting with their babies during the time they're in diapers.
I need to make a diaper that absolutely works and is like. Like a work of art, you know, at the same token, when, and if it does fail that mom and dad are like,
Ken: yeah,
Shazi: I mean, we're in it for all the right reasons. So are the other big corporations that are selling these products, are they in it for all the right reasons?
And I feel like that's the heart of it. That's the difference. That's why you would tell, you know, that young person in your life, go get an MBA and make it happen. Figure it out. The, you know, the game is changing. Play the game. Like it used to be to become wealthy and successful and rich, whatever. You had to be a killer.
And I think now there is a way to get there and you don't have to kill anybody. You actually be a healer. You can actually be a healer. And that is, that is cool. That's what I want.
Ken: Yeah, of course.
Shazi: That's what you want. That's what I want for my daughter to do.
Ken: You know, it's funny when, and you're on the EWG board, so you know this well.
We never, almost never start working on an issue. Maybe it's a, a pesticide that we've found in food or a toxic chemical that's in drinking water. We almost never start with the assumption that the first or only place to launch a campaign and launch an initiative is in the policy realm. Obviously, it's there.
If you can establish regulations, that's great. You know, help deal with the problem. That's wonderful. But it's gotten so difficult to do that, that we automatically begin each environmental project by thinking about, well, how can we make change happen in the marketplace? How can we give information to everyday people, regular consumers, so that they can vote with their dollars and, and start moving things long before the FDA or EPA or whoever else comes to the fight. It's been a thrill for me to see that happen, but it's a very different kind of environmentalism. It's not that markets solve all the problems, but we find ourselves starting there and then building the policy piece next, rather than trying to get the policy passed. Which can take a generation.
Shazi: Well, the beauty of it, Ken, is that EWG has old school principals and is applying like new school learning to how they get the word out. And you know, we live in a world where the attention span is not what it once was. I don't think anybody, I don't think I could read one of those policy documents. Yeah.
But if you tell me something could be better for my baby. Case closed. Yeah. If you say it to me that way, that's what I want and you're giving it to me in the format that I want it or where I am.
Ken: And not judging too much. During the moment. Giving people options. And giving
Shazi: them like love and joy and hope and yeah, a solution to the thing they're worried about.
That's why the EWG Healthy Living App is like the app. You can look at anything you're about to buy and see if it's safe. That's like, you know, your 30 years maybe of lobbying on Capitol Hill to change policy. It's like it happens in a moment where someone checking, Hey, is that diaper safe to put my baby in for three years?
You know, while they're developing and boom, I look at that and it says, yes, there's healthy baby. I'm happy. And that is, that is the way we've evolved and you've done it.
Ken: Exactly right. Right. And, and, you know, people, people are busy. And so, they don't have time for the policy reports. They don't have maybe even interest in the policy reports.
I, you know, I lament that things have gone that direct. I'm sorry I said that. No, no. I'm not trying to discourage. I feel the exact same way. And look at my day job, but it's really it's just the fact of the matter and I think it's the combination of this cultural shift and the emergence obviously of the, of the internet, it sounds silly to even talk about it because, you know, most of the people listening this don't know a time when there wasn't.
An internet, but now that we know there is one and that it gets, you can go directly to people who want to know, I just tell me what to buy. Just tell me the safe, healthy thing. I trust you, EWG. And there are other trusted sources too, but in our case, that's what we experienced.
Shazi: Well, but EWG is a third party verified gold standard.
And I think, I think there are other sources of information, but I don't trust them all because there's too many. There's so many. I think that's the thing as a new parent.
Ken: We work at it.
Shazi: Well, and that's why it was worth all the pain and the struggle and the heartache. To meet a standard that was practically impossible to be met.
Yeah. And I'm so glad that we were able to do it.
Ken: Oh, and I mean, you broke completely new ground, certainly in the diaper category. I remember all the conversations. What dyes to use in the diaper, what material to use, what waterproof capabilities it had, how it fastened, beginning to end. It was amazing to watch you and your team fight through all of those problems and you did.
Well, you know,
Shazi: scientists are not exactly easy to please and they, but I think being the pioneer of something is really great to be a groundbreaker and then you invite others to come enjoy and that's like join and that's how we. So
Ken: where do you see the business going next? I mean, there's all this pushback against, you know, ESG, all this pushback that we're seeing mostly from conservative circles that we've lost our way by factoring in climate and health and equity, all these other considerations.
We should get back to just, you know, return to the shareholders to, to profit in the business world. Are, are, are people holding on to that or are they feeling the pressure of just go back to basics and let's just make money and that's the best thing we can do as a company?
Shazi: Ah, that's a tough one. Anyway, you know, uh, just because I recently read the research on how parents are choosing diapers, right?
In this moment, either Families are trading down to the absolute most value driven option, which I completely understand. I mean, new family does not need stress about having enough money to buy a diaper.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: It's not okay. Yeah. It shouldn't happen in our world today.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: And then on the other side of that, consumers are choosing.
Yeah. You know, very premium options. So there's this middle ground is kind of going away. So you're either going super value or you're going super premium. And to me, the new premium for products is health. So if that's my north star and I'm saying, well, what I think as a shareholder in a company, right, or owner of a company, if health is our mission.
Then it has to be sold at a premium because there is a portion of the population who wants to trade up to get something healthy and you're talking about male infertility increases, I think 1 percent every year.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: Why would we put
Ken: This is where I cross my legs during the conversation, but go on.
Shazi: Why would you put a baby whose little body is developing In a diaper 24 7 for three and a half years that have endocrine disruptors in the diaper.
And that's just the way they've been. I mean, it's like one thing when you don't know, once you know, I mean, we have to take it out. So how do you prioritize, you know, people and purpose over profit? I don't think you have to give up on all three. I think you take a hit in the beginning when you're educating.
Cause it's hard and you're cutting through the noise and you need to get people to understand. And then, you know what, like when I first started this business, autism was one in 68. And then the next year the number went to one in 59. And then two years later it went to one in 44. And then last year it went to one in 36.
I'm talking about CDC stats. So during that time in the beginning, I might've looked kind of nuts. Why are we focusing on neurological health so much? You're a diaper company. Doesn't seem that nuts now. Or, you know, in 2003, Oh, that's nuts. Why are you focusing on organic baby food? Well, does it seem nuts now?
I mean, it's like you see a future, you know, what parents are going to need in the future and you make it for them. I don't think you have to give up on profit. There it's there. It's just not easy. It's not easy to start.
Ken: It's not easy. And you've done it again and again and again with two companies and multiple products.
What would you tell someone who's. You know, maybe just about to finish their graduate training, getting a master's in business administration or just coming out of undergrad and maybe has an interest in doing good, but also working in the private sector. What field of, I don't know, health and sustainability would you pick if you had to pick one other than the two where you've started companies?
Shazi: Brain health, planetary health,
Shazi: you know, I mean, to me, that's the future. What we need to, to ensure is safe. I still think I would today, but, uh, even, even as like a 25 year old, I think that's, uh, but I also think you don't have to have an MBA to start a business. I don't care who you are. You can always be learning.
And there are great brands and companies and businesses to work for. While you're figuring it out, I think of starting Happy Baby, I think of Happy Baby as my first MBA, honestly.
Ken: Mm hmm. Even
Shazi: though I had one.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: I mean, I saw my parents as immigrants, like, to me, that was an MBA, a different kind of MBA that no one would get.
Ken: Yeah.
Shazi: There's so much anxiety and there's so much noise. There's also so much potential and possibility. And I think it takes a minute. You have to figure out who you are and what makes you tick and what you're going to get out of bed for every single day. And it might take you years to figure that out by bouncing around to different businesses or companies or nonprofits to learn what you are and who that is.
I think what these moments hit you and it's like, I've got to, I've got to do this. I have to make this happen because I know it will make a difference. And boom.
Ken: Well, that I think might be the last word, but thank you for your decades of leadership and commitment and, and risk taking. That really does separate people, it seems to me, someone who's willing to
Shazi: But you are that.
It's not risk taking, I think, when you're a visionary. Not that I am saying I am, but sometimes I feel like I am. Have a, an ability to see the future.
Ken: So it's not risky. It's just,
Shazi: I just can see what it's going to be. And then I'm thinking, okay, well, what do we need to do to make that better? And you, you are a real visionary.
You are, but that it's, and then it's not risk taking, it's looking at data points and recognizing, wait a second, there's something here we need to think about, we need to do just a little bit more investigative research. We need to just get some labs on this. We need to understand. And the second you do that, I don't know that it's risk taking, it's just, it's time consuming.
Ken: It is for sure.
Shazi: It's hard when other people around you don't see the thing you see. People around you want, they want to make it happen. It's fun to have a team, I've, nothing happens, these conversations, it's not like it's me and you, it's like our teams.
Ken: Totally.
Shazi: And we get to be the ones who talk about it.
Yeah. Everything, as if we did it all ourselves, but.
Ken: Never the case.
Shazi: It's never the case. There's so many people that work in an organization to make things happen, and I just think, you know, you need a leader at the head of it to kind of point the sword in the direction we need to go in, and it's a North Star type of thing, and you, you see things, and I don't.
I don't know that it's risk taking because I don't think you have any other option.
Ken: That's a good way to think about it. Well, thank you again for coming on to the podcast. I know we're going to be working together for the rest of our lives. So it's great to have this moment to check in a few years down the road.
We'll see where we are.
Shazi: It's going to be a funny one.
Ken: All right. Thanks.
Shazi: Talk about number three. Thank you, Ken. I love you.
Ken: I love you too.
